Lincoln, I'm mystified why are you attacking the people trying to help solve the problems. As a long time member of the community I would prefer to be part of the solution, not the problem. We should know the limits of the data and question what doesn't make sense. The more we know about an issue the easier it is to define and solve. We should keep in mind that the available data may not show a complete picture of how STR's have increased here in the last 10 years and why. That's why Tremont should register rentals to find out more. Questioning things is not the problem. Of course I want to keep our family's non-winterized summer home that we built and have been using continuously for 53 years. I won't apologize that we are not rich enough to do that without rental income. How does the town or anyone in it benefit if we are forced to sell to someone rich enough to afford it without renting? No one denies there is a problem here and almost everywhere else. But it was not a problem 17 years ago when we needed to start renting. So what and why has that changed? What is not happening in the discussions about rentals is an attempt to reach a consensus on what are the biggest problems to solve, what is causing them and what data backs that up, what are the most immediate steps to take to fix things so something can happen instead of just talking about it. No one with years of ties to the community is going to resist fixing things. What is needed is someone to bring people together not the same divisiveness and anger we are seeing all around us.
Ann, what changed was the online wrecking ball AirBNB which is destroying communities. The velocity of change is unacceptable. By denying that fact, you are not trying to solve the problem. Simply registering rentals is just a Band-Aid which is more greenwashing ... attach some real teeth to the registration like other communities have done ... outlaw non resident investment, make one-week rentals a minimum ... none of that is incompatible with your current desires ...
I'm going to give up these discussions, we'll be eliminated by taxes and repairs first. But I'm not seeing on the ground doing rentals the things that are being talked about. I don't hear people questioning or trying to verify the things that don't make sense. It should be a concern that there is no way to accurately quantify what the increase in STR's has been over the last 15 years. There is no question what the trend is. The data now is most likely an accurate count of the current STR's since most prior rentals have an online listing now. But the data is distorted by not knowing what the starting number of STR's was on MDI before AirBnB and how to account for their addition to the AirDna data over time. It may not matter if the current total is too high and that is the only problem. But it should be important to point out that without the starting number, the total increase in online rental listings is not the total increase in STR's on the island. But accuracy and cross verification don't seem to be valued much in discussions anymore so I'm likely just being naive.
Lincoln, I agree with you and am not denying it's a problem. And that action should be taken. I think to solve the problem you need to try to understand the components and know that there is more than one factor at work and the current data doesn't provide all the information. The data doesn't distinguish investor rentals from long time owners covering expenses or show what the numbers of each are. Clearly the towns should take immediate actions to prevent people from buying property here for the purpose of investing but there are lots of ripple affects and it's worth understanding them. I bring up my case because many are in similar situations of not affecting housing (non-winterized, built house), not being investors, not making money on the house, wanting to keep a long held family home, and having responsibly rented for many years with a large group of long time repeat renters and a weekly minimum. Summer residents have been a part of the communities for generations, not all of them rich. There were hundreds of rentals on broker sites 20 years ago that weren't perceived as a problem. What does banning non resident investment mean? Does every non resident renter now get designated as an investor and the only summer residents allowed are those rich enough to own a second home without rental income? And if not how do you define an investor? How do you prevent those rentals without banning the ones that were not causing a problem for all these years. How do you have teeth without biting everyone? Every discussion I've heard recently just lumps all renters together as the problem. There really is no advantage to the community to force us out after 53 years in favor of a new owner with more resources but how do you make these distinctions? Has anyone talked to some of these new investors to find out how they plan to do this, why they purchased here with its shorter rental season and still high purchase prices, and why now. It might help determine how this might be discouraged in a more targeted way.
Lincoln, I guess my question is this. I understand they can eliminate current duplicates between vrbo and airBnB and some other partners that feed them data but I don't think many local brokers feed into this. Wouldn't a property that was listed for many years with a broker and then instead was added to vrbo look like a new rental, increasing the total? I was thinking more about year to year comparisons.
The Airdna data shows the actual listing on a map with income per rental. I'm sure it's got some latency issues ... but the trajectory is certainly unquestioned - that these communities have gone from a decades-old practice of some homeowners renting out their homes to make a few dollars in the summer, to a tectonic hollowing out of year-round and seasonal housing to outside investors swooping in ... that's why Airdna exists .. but you have no worries in Tremont. The boards there will never encroach upon your summer rental. They might impose some light registration which will be annoying. But they will not really regulate this sector. Just a matter of time before the school closes or consolidates with SWH ...
Lincoln, I'm not sure how they could know when a new listing is added to AirBnB that it had a listing in the past somewhere else. How far back do they compare? The broker sites don't usually include an address. Does the data show if the listing is actually being rented? There's no cost to leave the listing up even if not being rented. I don't know how the towns could get an accurate count of what the number of STR's were 15 years ago via brokers making it difficult to compare now to then. I'm just pointing out that it's really hard for the towns other than Bar Harbor to have a good historical picture. Registrations seem the most accurate current picture but still don't show if it's being rented, if it also has owner use and what the balance is. The focus is on the lack of supply but wouldn't it be helpful to have some ideal how demand for housing has increased in the last 10 years with more hotels, restaurants and businesses and the lab bringing in more people? I hope if other towns start registrations they might be able to collect some additional data as part of that to help get a more complete picture of things like what is non-winterized, how long places have been STR's, how long has it been owned by the same family, is it a rental only or a summer home as well. Things that might help the towns understand what has happened and see ongoing trends in order to better respond.
I'm concerned about the accuracy of data around short term rentals. To solve the problem some accuracy is needed. A percent increase in AirBnB listings does not represent the increase in short term rentals. Hundreds of rentals were listed by brokers 15 years ago and most rental are duplicate listed with multiple brokers and AirBnB and VRBO. A new listing on AirBnB could be a place that's been rented for 20 years. This is what makes it so difficult to know what the increase is. Quoting an increase in AirBnB listings as an increase in short term rentals can be misleading. Finding some way to estimate the actual increase would be helpful. There is no way to cover the full long term expenses of buying and owning and maintaining a house with a rental season of half year or less. The real estate market here will probably fall somewhat going forward making investing iffy. So it would be helpful to understand what is driving any increase in rentals. Data accuracy is essential to solve these problems.
Your thinking is really old school. No doubt many STRs are listed on multiple websites similar to sales. But Airdna is able to weed out the duplication. You don't sell a subscription service like Airdna to investors and the industry based on bad data. This isn't 1995.
Lincoln, I'm mystified why are you attacking the people trying to help solve the problems. As a long time member of the community I would prefer to be part of the solution, not the problem. We should know the limits of the data and question what doesn't make sense. The more we know about an issue the easier it is to define and solve. We should keep in mind that the available data may not show a complete picture of how STR's have increased here in the last 10 years and why. That's why Tremont should register rentals to find out more. Questioning things is not the problem. Of course I want to keep our family's non-winterized summer home that we built and have been using continuously for 53 years. I won't apologize that we are not rich enough to do that without rental income. How does the town or anyone in it benefit if we are forced to sell to someone rich enough to afford it without renting? No one denies there is a problem here and almost everywhere else. But it was not a problem 17 years ago when we needed to start renting. So what and why has that changed? What is not happening in the discussions about rentals is an attempt to reach a consensus on what are the biggest problems to solve, what is causing them and what data backs that up, what are the most immediate steps to take to fix things so something can happen instead of just talking about it. No one with years of ties to the community is going to resist fixing things. What is needed is someone to bring people together not the same divisiveness and anger we are seeing all around us.
Ann, what changed was the online wrecking ball AirBNB which is destroying communities. The velocity of change is unacceptable. By denying that fact, you are not trying to solve the problem. Simply registering rentals is just a Band-Aid which is more greenwashing ... attach some real teeth to the registration like other communities have done ... outlaw non resident investment, make one-week rentals a minimum ... none of that is incompatible with your current desires ...
I'm going to give up these discussions, we'll be eliminated by taxes and repairs first. But I'm not seeing on the ground doing rentals the things that are being talked about. I don't hear people questioning or trying to verify the things that don't make sense. It should be a concern that there is no way to accurately quantify what the increase in STR's has been over the last 15 years. There is no question what the trend is. The data now is most likely an accurate count of the current STR's since most prior rentals have an online listing now. But the data is distorted by not knowing what the starting number of STR's was on MDI before AirBnB and how to account for their addition to the AirDna data over time. It may not matter if the current total is too high and that is the only problem. But it should be important to point out that without the starting number, the total increase in online rental listings is not the total increase in STR's on the island. But accuracy and cross verification don't seem to be valued much in discussions anymore so I'm likely just being naive.
Lincoln, I agree with you and am not denying it's a problem. And that action should be taken. I think to solve the problem you need to try to understand the components and know that there is more than one factor at work and the current data doesn't provide all the information. The data doesn't distinguish investor rentals from long time owners covering expenses or show what the numbers of each are. Clearly the towns should take immediate actions to prevent people from buying property here for the purpose of investing but there are lots of ripple affects and it's worth understanding them. I bring up my case because many are in similar situations of not affecting housing (non-winterized, built house), not being investors, not making money on the house, wanting to keep a long held family home, and having responsibly rented for many years with a large group of long time repeat renters and a weekly minimum. Summer residents have been a part of the communities for generations, not all of them rich. There were hundreds of rentals on broker sites 20 years ago that weren't perceived as a problem. What does banning non resident investment mean? Does every non resident renter now get designated as an investor and the only summer residents allowed are those rich enough to own a second home without rental income? And if not how do you define an investor? How do you prevent those rentals without banning the ones that were not causing a problem for all these years. How do you have teeth without biting everyone? Every discussion I've heard recently just lumps all renters together as the problem. There really is no advantage to the community to force us out after 53 years in favor of a new owner with more resources but how do you make these distinctions? Has anyone talked to some of these new investors to find out how they plan to do this, why they purchased here with its shorter rental season and still high purchase prices, and why now. It might help determine how this might be discouraged in a more targeted way.
Read this:
https://www.airdna.co/short-term-rental-glossary
This just proves my point. They calculate potential revenue without knowing if the house is winterized or if the area has any off season demand?
they need to ban ultralights, especially ones using public ponds and lakes in and around the park
Lincoln, I guess my question is this. I understand they can eliminate current duplicates between vrbo and airBnB and some other partners that feed them data but I don't think many local brokers feed into this. Wouldn't a property that was listed for many years with a broker and then instead was added to vrbo look like a new rental, increasing the total? I was thinking more about year to year comparisons.
The Airdna data shows the actual listing on a map with income per rental. I'm sure it's got some latency issues ... but the trajectory is certainly unquestioned - that these communities have gone from a decades-old practice of some homeowners renting out their homes to make a few dollars in the summer, to a tectonic hollowing out of year-round and seasonal housing to outside investors swooping in ... that's why Airdna exists .. but you have no worries in Tremont. The boards there will never encroach upon your summer rental. They might impose some light registration which will be annoying. But they will not really regulate this sector. Just a matter of time before the school closes or consolidates with SWH ...
Lincoln, I'm not sure how they could know when a new listing is added to AirBnB that it had a listing in the past somewhere else. How far back do they compare? The broker sites don't usually include an address. Does the data show if the listing is actually being rented? There's no cost to leave the listing up even if not being rented. I don't know how the towns could get an accurate count of what the number of STR's were 15 years ago via brokers making it difficult to compare now to then. I'm just pointing out that it's really hard for the towns other than Bar Harbor to have a good historical picture. Registrations seem the most accurate current picture but still don't show if it's being rented, if it also has owner use and what the balance is. The focus is on the lack of supply but wouldn't it be helpful to have some ideal how demand for housing has increased in the last 10 years with more hotels, restaurants and businesses and the lab bringing in more people? I hope if other towns start registrations they might be able to collect some additional data as part of that to help get a more complete picture of things like what is non-winterized, how long places have been STR's, how long has it been owned by the same family, is it a rental only or a summer home as well. Things that might help the towns understand what has happened and see ongoing trends in order to better respond.
I'm concerned about the accuracy of data around short term rentals. To solve the problem some accuracy is needed. A percent increase in AirBnB listings does not represent the increase in short term rentals. Hundreds of rentals were listed by brokers 15 years ago and most rental are duplicate listed with multiple brokers and AirBnB and VRBO. A new listing on AirBnB could be a place that's been rented for 20 years. This is what makes it so difficult to know what the increase is. Quoting an increase in AirBnB listings as an increase in short term rentals can be misleading. Finding some way to estimate the actual increase would be helpful. There is no way to cover the full long term expenses of buying and owning and maintaining a house with a rental season of half year or less. The real estate market here will probably fall somewhat going forward making investing iffy. So it would be helpful to understand what is driving any increase in rentals. Data accuracy is essential to solve these problems.
Your thinking is really old school. No doubt many STRs are listed on multiple websites similar to sales. But Airdna is able to weed out the duplication. You don't sell a subscription service like Airdna to investors and the industry based on bad data. This isn't 1995.
You’re a condescending ass, Millstein.
https://www.airdna.co/airdna-data-how-it-works
The "Rube Goldberg" craft you filmed on Long Pond was built and piloted by none other than Dr. Mark Kandutsch of Bar Harbor.
Peter Spier
'Bored Nothing to Do'
"It flies. It really flies."
https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/peter-spier/bored-nothing-to-do/