I made the same point to the auditor. It's how the owners decided to identify themselves to the town, Stephen. How many different LLCs do you have? Give me your list and I'm happy to amplify as a clarification. Otherwise, deal with the town. It's their list.
But they are owned by different legal entities as stated to the town. If OP wishes to pay a single tax bill as Witham has, then it should do that ... as you know, people have reasons to have multiple entities. I don't know half of the properties you own, or Ocean Properties. I've never heard you say how much property taxes you pay in total. You've only cited specific properties in public. When you get up in public and say the amount you paid for the Pathway Hotel, did you include the entire amount paid by SSC LLC which has other members? If SSC LLC is owned by you, Tom and Nina St. Germain and Brian Shaw, that is a different owner than the one that owns Mount Desert Inn. OP probably has the same situation. SSC is probably a unique entity paying taxes on only one property. That was your decision, so live with it. Golden anchor, LC is the named owner of 55 West Street, not Ocean Properties.
If OP wants to give me a list of all its properties including ones with fractional shares, I'd consider reviewing them. I'm not willing to take your word or theirs without a authoritative list like the one in the town auditor report.
I THINK THIS ACTUALLY MIGHT BE A GOOD STORY ... Who really owns what in town. Will you help me with the research?
First of all, it's not a single tax bill for separate parcels no matter how the ownership structure is. Each parcel is assessed separately and gets a separate tax bill.
Secondly, I find your series of excuses as to why you were unable to present the data in a relevant, oranges-to-oranges way, comical. You don't know what people own? Then why publish an article that depends on knowing what people own in order to be of any substance? Your readership fancies you (and you certainly oblige their fancies) this award-winning investigative journalist, but you can't research a few corporate filings and peruse the assessor's database? Your excuses aren't passing the straight-face test. Lol. You liked what the flawed data misleadingly appear to demonstrate, so you rolled with it. Just own it. We all know you despise tourism and tourism businesses on MDI--just write opinion pieces as such. No need to present "reports" on the basis of cooked data.
Happy to help with your research. Give me a moment and I'll comment a list of every commercial parcel I own. Obviously, it's public record anyway.
Thank you. That will be very helpful. Please include fractional ownership. For the record, I write in the tradition of Pamphleteers like Thomas Paine, who preceded journalism and published spirited and strident articles which were the foundation of the country - long before newspapers ... and yes, you are correct, I have gained a huge and loyal readership ... I am a great admirer of a generation of hoteliers like Sonny Cough and the Witham family, whom I have written about and who understood and appreciated the balance between economic growth and preservation of a vibrant community. Peace.
I am very good friends with the Cough family and grew up working at Witham Family Hotels. Sorry you don't feel my locally-owned-and-operated year-round business born of the same community tradition as those other businesses can measure up to your standard of admiration.
We're in agreement. I do not think the community spirit has transferred well from that generation to the current one. Looking forward to your data. The last time you spoke in public in the council chamber, I believe your last statement was, "I should never have given that $100,000 to the school." Since we've opened this dialog, I'd like to know what you meant by that.
I meant exactly what I said. I think Bar Harbor's "emergency" moratorium represents a poorly-reasoned and baseless attack on my business that unfairly punishes many members of the community (namely, my employees, contractors, suppliers, etc.--and the community itself, ironically, which loses out on associated jobs, improved housing opportunities, and a lot of tax revenue). I think that's sad, and I also think the way the matter was handled by the council was extremely poor. Additionally, when I made the donation most of the feedback was nasty--people in this Town have become so bitter, they couldn't even appreciate a plainly positive thing: someone giving $100,000 to an elementary school library. I'm not sure if you've ever given away $100,000 to an elementary school library in the town where you grew up because you feel strongly about the value of reading and care about the future of your Town and have that news received by you largely being called a devious piece of shit in doing so, but let me inform you, it might leave you feeling rather disheartened yourself.
Thus I am disheartened by the state of the discourse and displeased with the governance of the Town. Therefore, I wish I'd have given that $100,000 to some other equally worthy cause. When you give a gift, if you're anything like me, you're hoping to spark more giving to a cause you value. When instead you spark a shitstorm of bogus accusations and general nastiness, that doesn't exactly make you feel great about it.
All that being said, I pledged what I pledged and the deed is done. It's not coming back.
Okay, if you knew this chart is flawed to the point of conveying no useful information, why use it? And why make a statement like this one--"That total, $239,352, dwarfs the next largest taxpayer, West Street Hotel"--when you know you're citing apples-to-oranges data?
If we're trying to have a real objective conversation on this subject then your 239k total Jackson Lab figure should be compared to Ocean Properties total tax figure, obviously, not to one random parcel Ocean Properties owns. I believe Ocean Properties total tax bill is in excess of $1 Million, which is certainly not "dwarfed" by 239k.
I think a more meaningful exercise would be to add up all the measurable contributions organizations make to the town. How many full-time employees do you have and how many of them pay property taxes, compared to JAX? Same for OP. I think JAX has about 1,200 employees in BH. How many own their own homes?
Your article was about a comparison of taxes. I pointed out a fundamental flaw in the data you used for comparison (a flaw which, ironically, you said you were already aware of). That having been pointed out, you now wish to talk about every other possible topic, except the comparison of taxes--the topic which your article was about.
I am happy to discuss winter operations, employment, and payroll once you acknowledge you've changed the subject due to it being made evident that property tax data--the original subject, here--when properly presented, doesn't say exactly what you wish it would.
My article was about the demonizing of a scientific treasure by local business interests who are under fire from the citizenry for their careless ambition and who are trying to create a faux villain to take the heat off of their own transgressions.
Lincoln Millstein, of all people, accusing someone of creating faux villains. I would say that's rich, but that would akin to saying the surface of the sun is a little warm. Creating faux villians is quite literally your entire blog in a nutshell.
Whenever we climb mt Champlain we always look down on Bar Harbor. Jackson Labs sits quietly below doing critical research, adding to the towns jobs and tax base. While off in the distance giant cruise ships are anchored, blocking the view of the porcupines, spewing diesel smoke from their stacks. They add nothing to the to the town but unwanted crowding.
Everyone who works at Jackson Lab and MDI Bio Lab, etc., contributes to the work that benefits everyone in our community,whole world and future generations. While Eben and Stephen and their like minded Chamber buddies rail against these great institutions, they forget that medical research is done to benefit all , including them. Unlike Stephen and Eben, I have never heard JAX or MDI Lab whine about public criticism. They continue to do their absolutely critical work. Thank you JAX and Bio Lab for all you do, and you provide a lot of year round, well paying jobs with benefits for so many. Bar Harbor would have withered into nonexistence a long time ago without you. Please contact your legislators to demand that medical research be supported. It really is a matter of life and death and wellness if you consider the big picture.
I have never "railed against" the Lab. Nothing I said in any of these comments had anything to do with the Lab, and I've never had anything bad to say about the Lab. I pointed out flaws in a chart of tax data. Don't conflate that into me "railing against" the Lab.
Its genetically specific mice are shipped all over the world to scientists working constantly to save lives. It’s an absolute treasure. They provide great jobs, treat employees very well.
Wouldn’t it be a tragedy if people that rent bedrooms to make money drove them out to another location?
This is another example of "people don't know what they don't know." We don't know how Jax', their customers' or MDI's advanced research will help with solutions to health problems. However, they have such a great track record that it's safe to say that their research is important and relevant to all of us and so they need continued Federal support. If they don't do critical research without Federal money, who will?
Oh, Stephen, I was including your self pitying comments in the “ Comments” section of this blog. As I have stated before, thank you for your donation to the school that is more important than ever per
the Musk/Trump assaults on federal education funding .
Changing topics, I wonder if the “lodging beds” out there on the ships are included in the count, what the ratio of beds of visitors to BH residents would be. Though perhaps an apples to oranges comparison, it would give a sense of how overwhelming the sheer volume of even a 2,000 pax day is during the tourist season for local residents.
Glad you appreciate it because it represents the final cent Bar Harbor will see from me that I'm not legally obliged to hand over. I hope you and your ilk's pot-shots are worth the Town's loss. Causes located in other municipalities will be receiving what would've been my future contributions to this community.
More like, diverting my marbles because Bar Harbor has devolved into a mean spirited, poorly managed, anti-business (even the very local ones) place dominated by individuals with little or nothing invested in the community who generally view it as their own exclusive retirement grounds to commandeer via any BS necessary. I'm not going to support a place where happiness/liveability for the common individual is fought against and frowned upon the way it is in Bar Harbor (God forbid someone simply enjoys a t-shirt and an ice cream cone! God forbid we drop our NIMBYism adjust our zoning to allow the commoners in!)
Bar Harbor has become a mean spirited retirement ground where bitter individuals with little to offer and lots of free time come to advance false narratives seeking to support their elitist ideological crusades and their desired exclusivity of a national park. I'm not into it.
Ken may have worked at JAX for awhile but he worked at LS Robinson’s Insurance for many years and I think he bought it from Bruce Bicknell, and then retired from LSR.
The top taxpayers chart you cite is misleading as certain lines are individual parcels and certain other lines represent multiple parcels held by a common owner. You should either explain that, or present a chart that shows only individual parcels or only groupings by common owner.
I made the same point to the auditor. It's how the owners decided to identify themselves to the town, Stephen. How many different LLCs do you have? Give me your list and I'm happy to amplify as a clarification. Otherwise, deal with the town. It's their list.
But they are owned by different legal entities as stated to the town. If OP wishes to pay a single tax bill as Witham has, then it should do that ... as you know, people have reasons to have multiple entities. I don't know half of the properties you own, or Ocean Properties. I've never heard you say how much property taxes you pay in total. You've only cited specific properties in public. When you get up in public and say the amount you paid for the Pathway Hotel, did you include the entire amount paid by SSC LLC which has other members? If SSC LLC is owned by you, Tom and Nina St. Germain and Brian Shaw, that is a different owner than the one that owns Mount Desert Inn. OP probably has the same situation. SSC is probably a unique entity paying taxes on only one property. That was your decision, so live with it. Golden anchor, LC is the named owner of 55 West Street, not Ocean Properties.
If OP wants to give me a list of all its properties including ones with fractional shares, I'd consider reviewing them. I'm not willing to take your word or theirs without a authoritative list like the one in the town auditor report.
I THINK THIS ACTUALLY MIGHT BE A GOOD STORY ... Who really owns what in town. Will you help me with the research?
First of all, it's not a single tax bill for separate parcels no matter how the ownership structure is. Each parcel is assessed separately and gets a separate tax bill.
Secondly, I find your series of excuses as to why you were unable to present the data in a relevant, oranges-to-oranges way, comical. You don't know what people own? Then why publish an article that depends on knowing what people own in order to be of any substance? Your readership fancies you (and you certainly oblige their fancies) this award-winning investigative journalist, but you can't research a few corporate filings and peruse the assessor's database? Your excuses aren't passing the straight-face test. Lol. You liked what the flawed data misleadingly appear to demonstrate, so you rolled with it. Just own it. We all know you despise tourism and tourism businesses on MDI--just write opinion pieces as such. No need to present "reports" on the basis of cooked data.
Happy to help with your research. Give me a moment and I'll comment a list of every commercial parcel I own. Obviously, it's public record anyway.
Thank you. That will be very helpful. Please include fractional ownership. For the record, I write in the tradition of Pamphleteers like Thomas Paine, who preceded journalism and published spirited and strident articles which were the foundation of the country - long before newspapers ... and yes, you are correct, I have gained a huge and loyal readership ... I am a great admirer of a generation of hoteliers like Sonny Cough and the Witham family, whom I have written about and who understood and appreciated the balance between economic growth and preservation of a vibrant community. Peace.
I am very good friends with the Cough family and grew up working at Witham Family Hotels. Sorry you don't feel my locally-owned-and-operated year-round business born of the same community tradition as those other businesses can measure up to your standard of admiration.
We're in agreement. I do not think the community spirit has transferred well from that generation to the current one. Looking forward to your data. The last time you spoke in public in the council chamber, I believe your last statement was, "I should never have given that $100,000 to the school." Since we've opened this dialog, I'd like to know what you meant by that.
I meant exactly what I said. I think Bar Harbor's "emergency" moratorium represents a poorly-reasoned and baseless attack on my business that unfairly punishes many members of the community (namely, my employees, contractors, suppliers, etc.--and the community itself, ironically, which loses out on associated jobs, improved housing opportunities, and a lot of tax revenue). I think that's sad, and I also think the way the matter was handled by the council was extremely poor. Additionally, when I made the donation most of the feedback was nasty--people in this Town have become so bitter, they couldn't even appreciate a plainly positive thing: someone giving $100,000 to an elementary school library. I'm not sure if you've ever given away $100,000 to an elementary school library in the town where you grew up because you feel strongly about the value of reading and care about the future of your Town and have that news received by you largely being called a devious piece of shit in doing so, but let me inform you, it might leave you feeling rather disheartened yourself.
Thus I am disheartened by the state of the discourse and displeased with the governance of the Town. Therefore, I wish I'd have given that $100,000 to some other equally worthy cause. When you give a gift, if you're anything like me, you're hoping to spark more giving to a cause you value. When instead you spark a shitstorm of bogus accusations and general nastiness, that doesn't exactly make you feel great about it.
All that being said, I pledged what I pledged and the deed is done. It's not coming back.
Okay, if you knew this chart is flawed to the point of conveying no useful information, why use it? And why make a statement like this one--"That total, $239,352, dwarfs the next largest taxpayer, West Street Hotel"--when you know you're citing apples-to-oranges data?
If we're trying to have a real objective conversation on this subject then your 239k total Jackson Lab figure should be compared to Ocean Properties total tax figure, obviously, not to one random parcel Ocean Properties owns. I believe Ocean Properties total tax bill is in excess of $1 Million, which is certainly not "dwarfed" by 239k.
I think a more meaningful exercise would be to add up all the measurable contributions organizations make to the town. How many full-time employees do you have and how many of them pay property taxes, compared to JAX? Same for OP. I think JAX has about 1,200 employees in BH. How many own their own homes?
Your article was about a comparison of taxes. I pointed out a fundamental flaw in the data you used for comparison (a flaw which, ironically, you said you were already aware of). That having been pointed out, you now wish to talk about every other possible topic, except the comparison of taxes--the topic which your article was about.
I am happy to discuss winter operations, employment, and payroll once you acknowledge you've changed the subject due to it being made evident that property tax data--the original subject, here--when properly presented, doesn't say exactly what you wish it would.
My article was about the demonizing of a scientific treasure by local business interests who are under fire from the citizenry for their careless ambition and who are trying to create a faux villain to take the heat off of their own transgressions.
Lincoln Millstein, of all people, accusing someone of creating faux villains. I would say that's rich, but that would akin to saying the surface of the sun is a little warm. Creating faux villians is quite literally your entire blog in a nutshell.
Whenever we climb mt Champlain we always look down on Bar Harbor. Jackson Labs sits quietly below doing critical research, adding to the towns jobs and tax base. While off in the distance giant cruise ships are anchored, blocking the view of the porcupines, spewing diesel smoke from their stacks. They add nothing to the to the town but unwanted crowding.
Everyone who works at Jackson Lab and MDI Bio Lab, etc., contributes to the work that benefits everyone in our community,whole world and future generations. While Eben and Stephen and their like minded Chamber buddies rail against these great institutions, they forget that medical research is done to benefit all , including them. Unlike Stephen and Eben, I have never heard JAX or MDI Lab whine about public criticism. They continue to do their absolutely critical work. Thank you JAX and Bio Lab for all you do, and you provide a lot of year round, well paying jobs with benefits for so many. Bar Harbor would have withered into nonexistence a long time ago without you. Please contact your legislators to demand that medical research be supported. It really is a matter of life and death and wellness if you consider the big picture.
I have never "railed against" the Lab. Nothing I said in any of these comments had anything to do with the Lab, and I've never had anything bad to say about the Lab. I pointed out flaws in a chart of tax data. Don't conflate that into me "railing against" the Lab.
Another one of your stellar reports with important facts we need to know. Thank you, Lincoln!
Its genetically specific mice are shipped all over the world to scientists working constantly to save lives. It’s an absolute treasure. They provide great jobs, treat employees very well.
Wouldn’t it be a tragedy if people that rent bedrooms to make money drove them out to another location?
This is another example of "people don't know what they don't know." We don't know how Jax', their customers' or MDI's advanced research will help with solutions to health problems. However, they have such a great track record that it's safe to say that their research is important and relevant to all of us and so they need continued Federal support. If they don't do critical research without Federal money, who will?
Oh, Stephen, I was including your self pitying comments in the “ Comments” section of this blog. As I have stated before, thank you for your donation to the school that is more important than ever per
the Musk/Trump assaults on federal education funding .
Changing topics, I wonder if the “lodging beds” out there on the ships are included in the count, what the ratio of beds of visitors to BH residents would be. Though perhaps an apples to oranges comparison, it would give a sense of how overwhelming the sheer volume of even a 2,000 pax day is during the tourist season for local residents.
Glad you appreciate it because it represents the final cent Bar Harbor will see from me that I'm not legally obliged to hand over. I hope you and your ilk's pot-shots are worth the Town's loss. Causes located in other municipalities will be receiving what would've been my future contributions to this community.
Taking your marbles because you didn't get your way? Keep writing Stephen.
More like, diverting my marbles because Bar Harbor has devolved into a mean spirited, poorly managed, anti-business (even the very local ones) place dominated by individuals with little or nothing invested in the community who generally view it as their own exclusive retirement grounds to commandeer via any BS necessary. I'm not going to support a place where happiness/liveability for the common individual is fought against and frowned upon the way it is in Bar Harbor (God forbid someone simply enjoys a t-shirt and an ice cream cone! God forbid we drop our NIMBYism adjust our zoning to allow the commoners in!)
Bar Harbor has become a mean spirited retirement ground where bitter individuals with little to offer and lots of free time come to advance false narratives seeking to support their elitist ideological crusades and their desired exclusivity of a national park. I'm not into it.
More hotels! Lol, keep going guy! Money $$$$$$
Jackson Lab is recognized world wide. Its scientists are invited to conferences across the world. It’s genetically specified mice bred
Ken may have worked at JAX for awhile but he worked at LS Robinson’s Insurance for many years and I think he bought it from Bruce Bicknell, and then retired from LSR.
https://academic.oup.com/jhered/article-abstract/70/2/109/832730
Who's this?
Ken Salvatore, sorry not to be clearer. D
The top taxpayers chart you cite is misleading as certain lines are individual parcels and certain other lines represent multiple parcels held by a common owner. You should either explain that, or present a chart that shows only individual parcels or only groupings by common owner.
-Stephen Coston